The Wrath of Real Witches & Alchemists

This is a Thread of Alt.Tarot...

The Best Parts are Enhanced...

New Tarot Delimiters...???
1 The Translucent Amoebae Nov 13
2 Joseph Littleshoes Dec 10
3 Al Smith Dec 10
4 The Translucent Amoebae Dec 11
5 Joseph Littleshoes Dec 12
6 Al Smith Dec 12
7 The Translucent Amoebae Dec 13
8 Al Smith Dec 13
9 Joseph Littleshoes Dec 13
10 The Translucent Amoebae Dec 14
11 Al Smith Dec 14
12 mariannakaripi...@gmail.com Dec 14
13 Al Smith Dec 14
14 mariannakaripi...@gmail.com Dec 14
15 Al Smith Dec 14
16 The Translucent Amoebae Dec 15
17 Al Smith Dec 15
18 The Translucent Amoebae Dec 15
19 Al Smith Dec 15
A NO "Meanings" of the cards for TTA (The Translucent Amoebae)
20 Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings! Dec 17
Aleister Crowley's Three Swords for The Translucent Amoebae
21 Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings! Dec 17
The No "Meanings" Tarot card for The Translucent Amoebae!
22 Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings! Dec 17
23 mariannakaripi...@gmail.com Dec 17
Pythia vs Santa Shaman
24 Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings! Dec 17
The Tipsy Gypsy says,
25 Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings! Dec 17
Re: New Tarot Delimiters...???
26 mariannakaripi...@gmail.com Dec 15
27 Al Smith Dec 15
28 mariannakaripi...@gmail.com Dec 15
29 Joseph Littleshoes Dec 15

New Tarot Delimiters...???

1. The Translucent Amoebae
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More options Nov 13, 11:47 am
I'm making a deck of Divination/Oracle Cards that is some ways
derivative of The Tarot,
But it's also deviating quite sharply from it...
And i will also be making more decks in the future,
each with a completely different format,
number of suits, number of major arcana, Changing & personalizing the
Face Cards
& looking for new Archetypes to exploit...
So the question is:
Where have alternative Tarot/Oracle/Divination Cards Gone in the past?
Where have you speculated that they might go in the future?
Thanx!
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2. Joseph Littleshoes
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Dec 10, 5:59 pm

The Translucent Amoebae wrote:
> I'm making a deck of Divination/Oracle Cards that is some ways
> derivative of The Tarot,
> But it's also deviating quite sharply from it...
> And i will also be making more decks in the future,
> each with a completely different format,
> number of suits, number of major arcana, Changing & personalizing the
> Face Cards
> & looking for new Archetypes to exploit...
> So the question is:
> Where have alternative Tarot/Oracle/Divination Cards Gone in the past?

What past? from when to when? and by 'gone' i assume you mean happened
to them as a cultural phenomena? Tarot, even with the introduction of
the Waite deck in the early 1900's has some superstitious baggage
associated with it that rendered it a much more alternative and obscure
phenomena than in today's modern world of new age curiosity about any
aspect of "Divination" be it fortune telling or Oracle Cards. But
various Oracle and Oracle systems have existed since the beginning of
recorded history, some of the earliest writings are Oracular utterances.
In the last 100 years or so (really beginning in the west with the code
Napoleon) most of the religious proscriptions against 'fortune telling'
have been lifted and it has been not only decriminalized, but recognized
as a legitimate cross cultural human phenomena, no matter how much it
may be disapproved of by certain dogmatists.
Thus in the 1700's & 1800's one finds various Oracle cards & books &
system commercially available to the literate and moneyed classes. The
poor and illiterate usually having means necessary to their needs from
their own folk lore. And in the early 1900's a 'spiritual revival' not
unlike the modern 'new age' movement occurred and various Oracle systems
became available as part of an organizational process, various
organizations arising to offer codified instructions in the subject as a
part of an over al spiritual process. Not dissimilar (and in some
'cases' connect to) to the 1800's Golden Dawn systems.

> Where have you speculated that they might go in the future?

I don't expect much change in the dilettantes approach to the subject, a
market will probly exist for a long time to come (baring the end of
civilization as we know it) however, i do think that as this knowledge
spreads and more people devote themselves to it the less likely they
will be to actually purchase such tools, and more likely to realize the
ideal of forming their own.
By one theory, success in the process implies a personalization of the
tool unique to the individual.
Its almost like, the better one gets with Tarot the less one needs the
actual cards.
--
Joseph Littleshoes
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3. Al Smith
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Dec 10, 7:29 pm

- Show quoted text -
In the quote you give, the original poster is looking for "new
Archetypes to exploit." Really, what does it matter what he wants,
or what he writes? He is clueless.
-Al-
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4. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 11, 12:37 pm
On Dec 10, 7:29 pm, Al Smith wrote:

- Show quoted text -
Obviously; You're some kind of Inski Troll...
But ahhhh...
What do you mean by clueless?
i'm trying to create a completely personalized Tarot Like Divination
Deck,
And am curious as to how others have approached this...?
My thinking is that; Real Witches ( ? ) Make their own tools,
Very UNLIKE The Harry Potter books and movies, In which they purchase
everything.
Is in fact Very UnCommon for Clairvoyants to make their own decks...?
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5. Joseph Littleshoes
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Dec 12, 12:22 pm

- Show quoted text -
Perhaps more so among the rich witches of east and west and the poorer
people have to make do with their own primitive versions, which,
depending on how we define it, is probly little if any different than
the more expensive boutique version.
Any form of divination can be considered an unfortunate atavism.
Personalizing it would just be heaping effort onto folly:)
Even though by at least one theory that is precisely what the medium,
mystic, clairvoyant MUST do even if they themselves are not the unique
instrument they use then any other tool must be personalized, and in the
case of a divinatory tool like the Tarot, it is not so much the
structure as the meanings applied to the parts that seems to undergo the
most variation.
And now a days we have the unfortunate phenomena of any body with a
graphics program churning out ANOTHER tarot deck, but its a thin line
between a cynical view of yet another deck and the recognition that the
tarot has inspired generations of artists, thus the plethora of antique
and modern decks held to be the classics of their genre or form.
One historical conundrum is that people who have devoted a long time to
the study of the cards have not devoted the same amount of time to an
artistic skill, a representational skill like drawing or painting.
And those people who have devoted them selves to painting and drawing
have not spent the same proportion of time on the Tarot.
A collaboration is almost a necessity. Now days with computer graphic
programs this is less necessary. And its probly only a matter of time
before this becomes more and more common.
I waited for my dedicated oracle device™ in which i can carry thousands
of decks around in as well as create my own:)
--
JL
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6. Al Smith
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Dec 12, 1:02 pm

- Show quoted text -
I should, perhaps, have expanded on my comment, for the benefit of
the original poster.
We don't "exploit" archetypes, we attempt to understand them as they
bear on our own life experience. There is no need to seek "new"
archetypes when it is obvious that the old ones have not been
understood.
The search for novelty in the Tarot imagery indicates a shallowness
of mind, and a lack of the patience that is required for the cards
to reveal their deeper meanings.
This poster is typical of those who can't make a sustained effort to
form a relationship with the traditional Tarot decks (such as the
Marseilles deck), or the well-established and well-respected occult
Tarot decks (such as the Golden Dawn deck or the Crowley Thoth
deck), but who keeps looking for new and different images, in the
hope that they will somehow magically provide the enlightenment that
can only come through long and hard study.
Instead of looking for new archetypes to "exploit" this person
should spend a year meditating on the meaning of the Marseilles
trumps. Probably he would gain nothing by this, but at least there
would be the possibility that he might learn, whereas if he simply
goes around seeking "new" archetypes to "exploit" he will certainly
and surely learn nothing at all.
-Al-
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7. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 13, 8:18 am
On Dec 12, 1:02 pm, Al Smith wrote:

- Show quoted text -
i'm afraid i'm going to have to take a one eighty here...!
As i actually do have a small amount of familiarity with Art, Modern &
Historical,
And a smaller amount of familiarity with Witchcraft & Divination,
And a moderate amount of familiarity with Archetypes & Symbolic
Interpretation,
i would think that Any Interpretation, or Attempted Interpretation of
someone else's Art or Tarot Development-- Is probably futile.
Even when you have the artist sitting right there in front of you,
And you ask them; What in the hell does this mean...?
They will give you either a very verbose, confusing & ambiguous
response,
Or flat out tell you that it can mean whatever you, the viewer ( Tarot
Reader ) would like it to mean, or believe that it does mean...
While on the other hand;
If you make your own deck,
After carefully studying the Older Tarots & The History of Archetypes,
The Images & Symbols that you create for yourself will mean exactly
what you intended them to mean.
You will OBVIOUSLY be a Master of Your Own Deck.
As for how well they'll be executed, in terms of artistic merit...
( ? )
i personally find the naive, simple, but intentionally created images
( which means; Some time was spend making them )
Are Delightfully Beautiful,
Where as The Overworked Professional Decks are obviously
just commercial drivel, and if you don't know,
or are unsure of what the images are supposed to refer to, then...???
Either you're a hack or you're not using the cards to illicit your
divinationing...( ? )
( Which; Actually; As i understand it,
No one does anyways...
The cards are just a prop to keep the client from fidgeting to
much... )
If on the other hand, you do a really nice job creating your own deck,
So much the better.
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8. Al Smith
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Dec 13, 9:15 am

- Show quoted text -
The most meaningful Tarot symbolism arose from combination of
insight, intuition, and chance. Deliberate, calculated symbolism
that adheres in a mechanical way to a pre-ordained system tends to
be lifeless and lacking in higher meaning.
Insight is what an artist uses when he or she selects one symbol to
use in place of many other possible choices. It is conditioned by
judgment.
Intuition is what prompts an artist to insert something he or she
would otherwise never have even considered using, just because it
feels right to do so.
Chance comes into play when a poorly drawn or badly reproduced
symbol is misinterpreted by a significant number of other people,
and over time becomes redrawn to match the misinterpretation. This
is an example of the group mind of human beings coming into play.
-Al-
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9. Joseph Littleshoes
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Dec 13, 1:44 pm

- Show quoted text -
Can one Divinate? & I assume you meant "elicit"?

> ( Which; Actually; As i understand it,
> No one does anyways...
> The cards are just a prop to keep the client from fidgeting to
> much... )

There is more merit to that than perhaps you realize:)

> If on the other hand, you do a really nice job creating your own deck,
> So much the better.

I have taken the path of finding objects to represent what i think the
cards mean (at least to me).
Especially in the sense of Trumps as Archetypes and the small cards as
intensities & forms of manifestation of the archetypes, including
directions, seasons, colors, & associated correspondences.
Being able to reduce the Tarot from 78 symbols to 32 with 11 of them
being primary to the rest of the 21's secondary nature it is a bit
easier to manipulate than one might first think.
Plus there is the added bonus of the ritualistic use of these objects in
divination giving them, at lest theoretically, a totemic or even
therugic property they would not ordinarily possess, the use of them
making them 'special' and suitable for giving away and replacing with
another object.
Eventually when i figure out which graphics program to buy i will probly
try my hand at creating a "deck" of Tarot "cards" but until then im
more interested in refining what i call 'object divination'.
--
JL
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10. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 14, 10:31 am
On Dec 13, 1:44 pm, Joseph Littleshoes wrote:

> The Translucent Amoebae wrote:
> > While o...
> Being able to reduce the Tarot from 78 symbols to 32 with 11 of them
> being primary to the rest of the 21's secondary nature it is a bit
> easier to manipulate than one might first think.

i've been corresponding with someone that has made several decks for
himself,
All apparently very crude, since he refuses to let me see them...???
But one idea / belief that he has is that the numbered minor arcania
cards are severely overrated, and he becomes very emotional when he
discusses the pointlessness of a card having a specific numbered
value... Which i agree with to some extent,
So for my deck, All the cards will be essentially major arcania
picture cards,
With the minor arcania sets being numbered, but each one having a
image that corresponds to it's value...
But-- as i attempted to emphasize to him; There is no reason that the
reader or client need be aware of that value. It is merely a
structural mechanism for the design of the deck...
???

> Eventually when i figure out which graphics program to buy i will probly
> try my hand at creating a "deck" of Tarot "cards" but until then im
> more interested in refining what i call 'object divination'.

Another thing i like to play around with is inventing new kinds of
Divination Methods.
For example, i am very surprised that Knee Cap Readings have never
been formally developed...??? Knee Caps are So Expressive and
Individualized...
This idea of Object Divination; The method that comes to mind is a
large jar of tiny charms or other found artifacts that is gently
shaken, then the client scoops out a selection of them ( without
looking ) and they are then examined...
How does it work in your version...???
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11. Al Smith
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Dec 14, 11:56 am

> i've been corresponding with someone that has made several decks for
> himself,
> All apparently very crude, since he refuses to let me see them...???
> But one idea / belief that he has is that the numbered minor arcania
> cards are severely overrated, and he becomes very emotional when he
> discusses the pointlessness of a card having a specific numbered
> value... Which i agree with to some extent,
> So for my deck, All the cards will be essentially major arcania
> picture cards,
> With the minor arcania sets being numbered, but each one having a
> image that corresponds to it's value...
> But-- as i attempted to emphasize to him; There is no reason that the
> reader or client need be aware of that value. It is merely a
> structural mechanism for the design of the deck...
> ???

That's quite short-sighted of your friend. The number cards have
great esoteric significance. Indeed, in the older Tarots, that's all
the suit cards are, not counting the court cards ... they are numbers.
The practice of putting pretty pictures on the number cards was a
late innovation by A. E. Waite, based on some earlier German Tarot
decks that contained pictures on the number cards of the suits. For
anyone who knows anything about the Tarot, complex separate images
on the number cards of the suits are an abomination. Your friend is
determined to carry this abomination to its logical end of the
completely asinine.
Most people should be prohibited by law from even touching a deck of
Tarot cards. They seem incapable of learning anything about the
Tarot, and have no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism.
-Al-
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12. mariannakaripi...@gmail.com
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Dec 14, 2:39 pm
On Dec 14, 2:56 pm, Al Smith wrote:

- Show quoted text -
no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism?
Ah, ah, my sensitive man! :-)
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13. Al Smith
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Dec 14, 4:07 pm

>> Most people should be prohibited by law from even touching a deck of
>> > Tarot cards. They seem incapable of learning anything about the
>> > Tarot, and have no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism.
>> > -Al-
> no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism?
> Ah, ah, my sensitive man! :-)

Well, think about it. The Tarot starts out with numbers for the suit
cards, plus the court cards of the suits. These numbers from one to
twn are represented by multiples of the suit symbol -- for example,
the Five of Cups shows five little cups on the card, with some
floral decoration.
Then A. E. Waite comes along, and decides that it would make the
suit cards easier to remember, for purposes of divination, if he put
individual images on each of the number cards. This was done before
in some German decks, but the images were purely decorative -- Waite
wants his images to be symbolically meaningful.
So he interprets the cards, according to the traditional meanings,
and adds in what he knows about the Golden Dawn Tarot esoteric
meanings (without ever telling anyone where this esoteric info comes
from), and the result is the Rider Pack, illustrated by Pamela
Colman Smith.
Since Waite is a lazy bastard, much of the illustration was Smith's
own inspiration -- but not to worry, she did a pretty good job.
Fine and dandy. Now people who can't remember the meanings of the
number cards of the Tarot have a little help, in the form of Waite's
pictures ... but this is only useful to them if they happen to
interpret the number cards exactly the same way as Waite. Otherwise,
it is going to mislead them and distort their interpretations of the
cards.
So what's the next logical leap into stupidity? That's right, what
our poster suggested ... the complete removal of the numbers from
the suit cards, leaving only Waite's interpretive pictures, or
variations on Waite's pictures.
So we progress from the sublime, to the ridiculous, to the brain dead.
-Al-
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14. mariannakaripi...@gmail.com
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Dec 14, 8:25 pm
On Dec 14, 7:07 pm, Al Smith wrote:

> >> Most people should be prohibited by law from even touching a deck of
> >> > Tarot cards. They seem incapable of learning anything about the
> >> > Tarot, and have no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism.
> >> > -Al-
> > no sensitivity at all for Tarot symbolism?
> > Ah, ah, my sensitive man! :-)
> Well, think about it.

Okay, my sensitive man, let me think about it....

> The Tarot starts out with numbers for the suit
> cards, plus the court cards of the suits. These numbers from one to
> twn are represented by multiples of the suit symbol --

Aaaaaaa!

>for example,
> the Five of Cups shows five little cups on the card, with some
> floral decoration.

Ooo, gee, Zmithara. Why did you choose the 5 of cups? I don't like it.

> Then A. E. Waite comes along, and decides that it would make the
> suit cards easier to remember, for purposes of divination, if he put
> individual images on each of the number cards. This was done before
> in some German decks, but the images were purely decorative -- Waite
> wants his images to be symbolically meaningful.
> So he interprets the cards, according to the traditional meanings,
> and adds in what he knows about the Golden Dawn Tarot esoteric
> meanings (without ever telling anyone where this esoteric info comes
> from), and the result is the Rider Pack, illustrated by Pamela
> Colman Smith.

...and adds in what he knows about the Golden Dawn Tarot esoteric
meanings?
Zmithara, what is the esoteric meaning of the 5 of cups?

> Since Waite is a lazy bastard, much of the illustration was Smith's
> own inspiration -- but not to worry, she did a pretty good job.
> Fine and dandy. Now people who can't remember the meanings of the
> number cards of the Tarot have a little help, in the form of Waite's
> pictures ... but this is only useful to them if they happen to
> interpret the number cards exactly the same way as Waite. Otherwise,
> it is going to mislead them and distort their interpretations of the
> cards.
> So what's the next logical leap into stupidity? That's right, what
> our poster suggested ...

Our poster? Zmithara, I'm sorry, I can't pronounce his/her name.
- Show quoted text -
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15. Al Smith
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Dec 14, 9:46 pm

> Zmithara, what is the esoteric meaning of the 5 of cups?

I'll interpret the Five of Cups for you in a purely symbolic manner,
without reference to traditional divinatory meanings, or the imposed
esoteric meanings. That way, you will see what the numbers on the
suit cards are important.
We have two factors to consider: the suit of the card, represented
by its suit symbol; and the number of the card, represented by the
number of times the suit symbol is repeated.
The suit is that of Cups. What do we derive by meditating on the
nature of a cup? A cup is a vessel that holds liquid. It is hollow,
womb-shaped, capable of three things: receiving, retaining, and
dispensing. This is also true of the womb. Liquid can be poured into
a cup. The cup will then hold the liquid until it is poured out. The
receptive and the retaining attitudes for the cup are upright, the
dispensing attitude is inverted. The cup is more something that
receives and holds than it is something that pours out, by a ratio
of 2:1.
Cups have various symbolic associations in mythology and history.
There is the Cup of Christ, the Grail. There is the wedding cup of
celebration. The christening cup. In Jewish marriage ceremonies the
breaking of a vessel symbolizes the breaking of the hymen of the
bride. Traditionally, women serve drink in cups and similar vessels.
The drink passes from the woman to the man. The cup is like the
nourishing breast. It holds and it gives forth.
Nourishing is a tender, loving activity. The drinking of wine or
other alcoholic liquor produces high spirits and sentimentality,
sometimes rage, but always it depresses the intellect and enhances
the emotions. For these reasons cups in general signify tenderness,
emotions, love, nourishment. When the emotions are tainted or
hate-filled, the cup becomes a cup of poison. Instead of giving
life, it takes life. Even then, it is filled with emotion.
The most basic liquid is water. Water is naturally associated with
the cup. Water has strong associations with the moon, also, and with
the sea. Tides are linked to the moon and the sea. The lunar
gravitational forces that cause the tides control the monthly
menstrual cycle in women, heightening and lessening emotion in a
cyclical way. The cup is thus a feminine symbol, by these and other
associations. It is connected with dreams and visions through the
moon and the sea, and through water itself, which is the mirror of
the mind.
The symbol of the cup is shared by all the cards of its suit, so all
these associations of the cup apply to all the suit cards. The
factor that differentiates one number card in the suit of Cups from
another number card is the number on the card.
So now we look at the number five. Most people today don't know much
about Pythagorean number theory. It doesn't matter, the meanings of
the numbers on the cards are quite basic. Five is the number
symbolically associated with man -- as in humanity, mankind. There
are five fingers on the human hand, and five physical senses. The
occult number of God is six. The reasoning was that if man is five,
then God, who is all that man is, plus something more, must be six.
Four is the number of matter. Five is the number of man. Six is the
number of God. Seven is the number of the stars (the wandering
stars, or planets, of ancient astrology, which marked the spheres of
the heavens).
Put these two factors together. Cup for emotions, tenderness, dreams
and visions, and the number five, for the most essential quality of
man. What distinguishes man? His intellect, his speech, his seeking
to know, his sense of self-identity, his ego. Combine them and you
get passion to achieve, to ascend, to penetrate, to dominate, to
define and order. The feminine aspect of the cup renders emotional
the driving willfulness of the number five, and makes it unbalanced.
It is either too soft or too hard, but it can never be exactly
right. The Five of Cups is an inherently imperfect card, and that
imperfection will manifest as dissatisfaction.
-Al-
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16. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 15, 12:46 am
On Dec 14, 9:46 pm, Al Smith wrote:

> > Zmithara, what is the esoteric meaning of the 5 of cups?
> I'll interpret the Five of Cups for you in a purely symbolic manner,
> without reference to traditional divinatory meanings, or the imposed
> esoteric meanings. That wa..., but it can never be exactly
> right. The Five of Cups is an inherently imperfect card, and that
> imperfection will manifest as dissatisfaction.
> -Al-

This correspondent that i was mentioning previously;
Thinks much more in terms of reading the cards in combinations...
( Which i agree with... As opposed to; --
As you are apparently suggesting...
That individual cards have very specific & distinct meanings...
To this Alternative Way of Reading The Cards
Whatever the Card itself Depicts or It's Suit or Numeric Value,
Is pretty much - - - Inconsequential,
But The Cards would rather be viewed & read as Sets, or combinations.
Plus; A big factor is reading the client, the conversation, psychic
impressions,
Voices from the dead, angels or Aliens...
And revealing The Message from All That...
You seem to suggest that if a computer were to have a complete ( ? )
encyclopedic understanding of each card, then it could provide just as
good or a better reading than a moderately competent tarot reader.
???
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17. Al Smith
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Dec 15, 1:02 am

> You seem to suggest that if a computer were to have a complete ( ? )
> encyclopedic understanding of each card, then it could provide just as
> good or a better reading than a moderately competent tarot reader.
> ???

Where did I ever suggest that?
????
I did not suggest it. Each card can be interpreted individually.
This does not invalidate group meanings for the cards. Why should
it? I didn't mention a computer at all. Where did you come up with a
computer?

You wrote:

"Whatever the Card itself Depicts or It's Suit or Numeric Value,
Is pretty much - - - Inconsequential,"
I will now write:
No, it bloody well is not. The meaning of the card is the meaning of
the card. Each number card of the four suits has a base meaning that
is derived from the combination of its suit with its number. That
meaning may be modified when the card is in combination with other
cards, but it can never be ignored, because it is the essential
sense of the card.

You wrote:

"Plus; A big factor is reading the client, the conversation, psychic
impressions,
Voices from the dead, angels or Aliens...
And revealing The Message from All That..."

I will now wrote:

If you want to listen to aliens tell you how to interpret the Tarot,
be my guest. It is possible to read the Tarot without their help, if
you just *know* the *meanings* of the cards.
-Al-
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18. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 15, 8:29 am
On Dec 15, 1:02 am, Al Smith wrote:

- Show quoted text -
"y guest. It is possible to read the Tarot without their help, if

> you just *know* the *meanings* of the cards.
> -Al-

i won't read 'between' the lines, or interpret general consequences of
implied beliefs this time...
it is my contention that there are NO "Meanings" of the cards.
A very good writer could insert into a story;
"She was as Black as a Sheet!"
or "That was the Bluest Canary that i'd seen that day."
or "The Insidious Creep of The Mauve Newspapers."
Would all make sense to the reader...
A good writer can make the words of a story or a Tarot reader can make
the cards mean anything that they believe that they Should Mean...!
A good / competent Tarot card reader should do just as well with blank
cards.
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19. Al Smith
View profile

Dec 15, 12:14 pm

>> If you want to listen to aliens tell you how to interpret the Tarot,
>> > be m
> "y guest. It is possible to read the Tarot without their help, if
>> > you just *know* the *meanings* of the cards.
>> > -Al-
> i won't read 'between' the lines, or interpret general consequences of
> implied beliefs this time...
> it is my contention that there are NO "Meanings" of the cards.

Fine. You and I have nothing to say to each other, because you have
no trace of appreciation for the Tarot, or understanding of it.
None. If you want to live the fantasy that the Tarot cards mean
whatever you want them to mean, be my guest.
-Al-

Discussion subject changed to
"A NO "Meanings" of the cards for TTA (The Translucent Amoebae)"
by Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
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20. Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
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Dec 17, 3:29 am
On Monday, December 15, 2008, 8:29am (CST-2)
The Translucent Amoebae
wrote, "...it is my contention that there are NO "Meanings" of the
cards...
AC (Aleister Crowley) says, "Ruin, Sorrow and Disappointment for The
Translucent Amoebae."
Santa Shaman says, "The Ten of Swords= Ruin. The Translucent Amoebae is
an undisciplined warring force, given to much unprofitable speech."
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Aleister Crowley's Three Swords for The Translucent Amoebae
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21. Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
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More options Dec 17, 3:56 am
Aleister Crowley says, "The Three of Swords= Sorrow."
Santa Shaman says, "The Translucent Amoebae comes to alt.tarot sowing
the seeds of discord and strife with his mischief-making.
The Translucent Amoebae, the archetype of Mirth in evil pleasures.
Just another No "Meaning" to the Tarot cards reading for The Translucent
Amoebae!"
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22. Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
View profile
More options Dec 17, 4:25 am
Aleister Crowley says, "The Five of Cups= Disappointment for The
Translucent Amoebae."
Santa Shaman says, "Sorrow and loss of those things from which pleasure
is expected for The Translucent Amoebae.
All kinds of troubles from unexpected sources for The Translucent
Amoebae.
Unkindness from the friends of alt.tarot.
There is an indication of possible deceit, ill-will and treachery by The
Translucent Amoeba!
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23. mariannakaripi...@gmail.com
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More options Dec 17, 8:04 am
On Dec 17, 7:25 am, cool...@webtv.net (Santa Shaman's Web of Life

Readings!) wrote:
> Aleister Crowley says, "The Five of Cups= Disappointment for The
> Translucent Amoebae."
> Santa Shaman says, "Sorrow and loss of those things from which pleasure
> is expected for The Translucent Amoebae.
> All kinds of troubles from unexpected sources for The Translucent
> Amoebae.
> Unkindness from the friends of alt.tarot.
> There is an indication of possible deceit, ill-will and treachery by The
> Translucent Amoeba!

Oh, come on Gypsy :-)
Pythia says this:
5 of cups + Knight of pentacles + The lovers + 2 of cups + Knight of
wands...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi
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24. Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
View profile

Dec 17, 10:34 am
On Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 8:04am (CST-2) Marianna Karipidou says,
"Pythia says this: 5 of cups + Knight of pentacles + The lovers + 2 of
cups + Knight of wands..."
Santa Shaman says, "So, Pythia tells us that The Translucent Amoebae is
a Disappointment when it comes to the Greek style of love. One wonders
which Knight The Translucent Amoebae is¿"
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25. Santa Shaman's Web of Life Readings!
View profile

Dec 17, 11:35 am
"Drawing a Hearts card means that issues to do with emotions and the
home are going to be important."
5 Hearts tells The Translucent Amoebae,
"Take your time to make any decisions."
2 Hearts tells The Translucent Amoebae, "Success and prosperity in love
and a partnership."
Drawing a Diamonds card means that issues to do with hard work and
affairs outside the home will be important.
King of Diamonds is a stubborn and influential man.
Drawing a Clubs card means that issues to do with business and money
will important.
King of Clubs is a honest, generous and affectionate man.
Joker (optional for The Lovers) New developments, fresh starts, taking a
risk.
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26. The Translucent Amoebae
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Dec 17, 2:12 pm
On Dec 17, 8:04 am, mariannakaripi...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 17, 7:25 am, cool...@webtv.net (Santa Shaman's Web of Life
> Readings!) wrote:
> > Aleister Crowley says, "The Five of Cups= Disappointment for The
> > Translucent Amoebae."
> > Santa Shaman says, "Sorrow and loss of those things from which pleasure
> > is expected for The Translucent Amoebae.
> > All kinds of troubles from unexpected sources for The Translucent
> > Amoebae.

Well; If you are responsible for my broken electrical heater,
You are indeed a powerful & vengeful magickian...!
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27. mariannakaripi...@gmail.com
View profile
More options Dec 15, 11:48 am
On Dec 15, 12:46 am, Al Smith wrote:

> > Zmithara, what is the esoteric meaning of the 5 of cups?
> I'll interpret the Five of Cups for you in a purely symbolic manner,
> without reference to traditional divinatory meanings, or the imposed
> esoteric meanings. That way, you will see what the numbers on the
> suit cards are important.
> We have two factors to consider: the suit of the card, represented
> by its suit symbol; and the number of the card, represented by the
> number of times the suit symbol is repeated.

Okay.

- Show quoted text -
Now, let's look at another symbolic(al) design, ie.,the heart. Let's
look at
the five of hearts. Tell me about the symbol of heart...
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp1.blogger.com/_SmweSl...
- Show quoted text -
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28. Al Smith
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More options Dec 15, 12:19 pm

> Now, let's look at another symbolic(al) design, ie.,the heart. Let's
> look at
> the five of hearts. Tell me about the symbol of heart...

If you equate the symbol of the heart with the symbol of the cup,
the Five of Hearts would mean the same as the Five of Cups. They are
not the same symbol, so they cannot be equated.
The cup and the heart share some meanings between them. However, the
heart is much more a symbol of love in European folklore. Also, it
is a symbol of the life-force, the seat of life in the human body.
At one time that was the liver, but in more recent centuries it
became the heart. The cup can be conceived to be filled with blood,
as when it is regarded as the Holy Grail, and then the cup and the
heart share overlapping symbolism. They are still not the same,
because they are different symbols.
-Al-
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29. mariannakaripi...@gmail.com
View profile
More options Dec 15, 6:03 pm
On Dec 15, 12:46 am, Al Smith wrote:

- Show quoted text -
No, no. I could say disappointment.
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30. Joseph Littleshoes
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More options Dec 15, 12:19 am

The Translucent Amoebae wrote:
> Another thing i like to play around with is inventing new kinds of
> Divination Methods.
> For example, i am very surprised that Knee Cap Readings have never
> been formally developed...??? Knee Caps are So Expressive and
> Individualized...

I seem to recall that its popular in India, where the whole body is
read, and iirc, knees are considered very important by those that follow
the practice, same with knuckles & toes.

> This idea of Object Divination; The method that comes to mind is a
> large jar of tiny charms or other found artifacts that is gently
> shaken, then the client scoops out a selection of them ( without
> looking ) and they are then examined...
> How does it work in your version...???

I have a cloth bag the objects (small stones, crystals, twigs, bones,
buttons, found objects charms, & various assorted tchotchkes of a
spiritual sort) are all in, the bag is held and turned in ones hands
while the question is being considered, the bag is then spilled onto a
simple grid like diagram.
If i am reading for another person i may spill the whole bag or reach in
and grab a handful to scatter, depending on how im feeling at the moment.
---
JL
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